This article is part of a series, where I offer individual and specific pieces of advice to people about moving to LA and getting started in entertainment via email, over coffees, and on phone calls. You can see the rest here.
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Subject: Finally Moved to LA
Nov 6, 2018
Hello Chris!
A lot has changed since we last spoke, but as it so happens one constant in my life has been the weekly connection. I finally took the leap and moved out to LA, to hopefully start a career in Film and TV. I did in fact read a lot of your Fighting Broke blogs and it helped me transition through a tough time after graduation.
That said, I do have a few questions for you. You talk a lot about offering your services for free, and impressing your boss.
(Chris note: I talk a lot about working for free here. And here’s how I think about “impressing your boss.”)
But how long should you keep doing this for? Is there a timeframe? Right now I’m working at XXX Films and YYY Pictures, under Producers David L and Beau F, respectfully. I love the experiences and knowledge gained from these places, but these are unpaid and them being so small, have almost no chance of hiring afterwards. I do think the connections and experience is valuable, but wondering for how long until I move on?
And speaking about moving on, do you know of any resources, perhaps have any connections in LA, that would lead me to entry level jobs in entertainment? I’d be forever grateful.
Also, if I remember correctly, you had a list of restaurants and bars, and I was wondering which ones were you’re favorite in West Hollywood in particular?
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Hey man,
I’m glad all the writing helped in a small way to get you to LA. And really appreciate you sending this note.
“How long should I work for free?”
…is a really good question.
The macro answer:
As long as you feel like there’s a positive value exchange. Is the experience you’re getting out worth the time you’re putting in?
The practical answer:
For a Hollywood internship, 3-6 months.
Communicate the term up front, so that everyone is clear about expectations. In 3-6 months, you’ll get the exposure you need (depending on where you’re working) to see how rolling calls works, how a casting call is put out, how to write coverage, how to cover a desk, etc. Then you’ll hit diminishing returns. That’s when you leave.
The BIG IMPORTANT DETAIL isn’t how long you stay in an unpaid role — it’s how well do you transition when you leave. How well do you leverage the time and value you created for those prod co’s into the next opportunity? Can you leverage it into a phone call on your behalf to the next place you want to work, whether it’s at a studio, agency, or for another prod co?
The nuance is understanding what the proportional ask is. Here’s an example:
In 99% of the cases, asking for a lead to full-time employment is too big an ask.
I would strongly recommend NEVER asking this. It’s too big of a lift. You’re asking people (who really don’t know you that well) to stick out their neck for you.
If they want to put you up for something, they’ll let you know. If they don’t want to, they won’t. It’s that simple.
What’s an example of a proportional ask?
Let’s say your boss used to be a BSD at a mid-level or top-level agency, and you were interested in getting into that agency’s trainee program. In that case, it’s probably OK to let them know your goals, say you’re trying to get into the trainee program, and would they make a phone call for you? This kind of ask is contextually different — basically you’re asking for a foot in the door, a meeting, which is very different than asking for a job.
But it’s an important distinction.
Don’t put someone in the position to look bad.
It’s terrific that you’re doing two internships. This doubles your ability to leverage your experiences at those companies afterwards. Here’s how I would do that:
- Research everyone who in the past five years, was an assistant or an intern at those two companies
- Get their names and emails, and do as much research as possible
- Email them, mention how you’re both alumni from this company, and ask if you can meet to ask for their advice
- Meet them. Ask for their advice. Ask about their experiences. Buy their drink
- Do not ask for a job
- Maintain and build this relationship for the next 5 years, adding value whenever you can
(Chris note: How I think about meeting and maintaining relationships for the long-term here.)
If you impress them, and it comes up that you’re looking for a new position, they’ll think of you.
You also come from a strong alma mater. Use that as well. Find out all the people who graduated from your university in the last five years and work in the industry. Reach out, rinse, repeat.
The fact you made it to LA and are executing speaks a lot to your character.
I’m excited to see what you do next. I want to offer one final piece of advice:
The best way to give back to someone offering you help is to take action on their advice, and let them know you did. I’m calling this out specifically because you failed to do this before.
We emailed about four months ago. You asked for interview advice, I gave you some, you never wrote back about how it went, or even a thank-you.
I am not upset or offended. I’m telling you this now because I want you to succeed, and if you don’t have good follow up, you won’t build good relationships. And it’s hard to succeed in this game (or any game) without good relationships.
The details matter.
Keep me posted on how things go.
P.S. Here’s the list of bars I used to go to — I haven’t updated in years, so some places will be gone. I loved 3rd Stop in WeHo because they had Magic Hat #9, a Vermont pale ale that’s not easy to find out west.
